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	<title>Comments on: What Gay Mormons Need</title>
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	<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/</link>
	<description>Your "token gay" mormon blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Velikiye Kniaz</title>
		<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/comment-page-1/#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator>Velikiye Kniaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 04:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soymademegay.com/?p=73#comment-263</guid>
		<description>Dear brethren,

      Things will get better for gay Mormons and I believe that it will happen in less than 50 years. I am now &#039;middle-aged&#039;, that&#039;s P.C. for &quot;past it&quot;, and thus likely old enough to be most, if not all, of your fathers. I am also a convert, having joined the Church when I was 17. I met my beloved when he was on his mission in what was then my home state. We both agreed that it was vitally important that he keep his commitments to our Father in Heaven and serve a clean and righteous mission. This actually worked out wonderfully for us because we got to know each other without feeling the pressure to express our feelings for each other sexually. When his mission was over he returned to his home and was killed a short time later. That was 37 years ago. I still love him and if I think of him too much tears come to my eyes. Last year, I went to put some flowers on his grave early one morning and just as I knelt down to place the flowers the sun broke over the ridge of the mountains east of the cemetery and as the sun shone upon me and his grave, I wept as bitterly as the day he died. I knew that for just a few moments he was there and saw me and I could feel the warmth of his continuing love.
    What angers me more than anything else about some members, and perhaps even some General Authorities attitudes is that their heterosexual love is superior to the love I and my partner have. In my case, as well as in other Gay Mormon&#039;s cases, they don&#039;t have a clue. I don&#039;t know of any of my gay friends, especially gay Mormon friends who would ever trivialize or belittle their loving relationships with their spouses. This is the core of their predjudice and discrimination. For them, the Scripture, &quot;God is love&quot; should be amended to read, &quot;God is only heterosexual love&quot; or &quot;God is just our kind of love&quot;.
      Since the time of my partner&#039;s passing from this mortal realm, I have seen the Church change and the driving engine for that change has been the converts that join the Church and the rising generations of younger Saints who have grown up without the bias and predjudices of earlier generations. Someday brethren, these men and women will fill the callings and offices within the Church. And when they kneel and ask Heavenly Father about this issue, God will find their minds genuinely open to receive the Light and Knowledge He has for them. 
      Now I may or may not see that day myself, but I feel that many of you will. In the meantime, stay true to the Faith! Build your testimonies and your courage to face these last days. At least we can be thankful for one thing, when the times of persecution come again, we&#039;ll know how to cope. &quot;Been there and endured much the same!&quot; Ironically, then it might be that our straight brothers and sisters will need to lean on us to weather these trials!
      Take good care of yourselves. You might not feel it or realize it at the time, but as long as you are striving to live the Gospel to the best of your ability our Heavenly Father is with you. He will strengthen you, sustain you and lift you up through your darkest hours. As time passes and you reflect on these episodes of your life you will see His Hand and the influence of His Holy Spirit. You are not alone and never have been. There have been gay Latter-day Saints in every generation, including those who made the trek West. We have a worthy place in the Kingdom of God. He has called us out of the World and into his Church and Kingdom. He answers our prayers and sends the Holy Spirit to witness, veritfy and strengthen our testimonies. What greater acceptance than that can we hope for until the Saviour comes?

      May God continue to bless and watch over you all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear brethren,</p>
<p>      Things will get better for gay Mormons and I believe that it will happen in less than 50 years. I am now &#8216;middle-aged&#8217;, that&#8217;s P.C. for &#8220;past it&#8221;, and thus likely old enough to be most, if not all, of your fathers. I am also a convert, having joined the Church when I was 17. I met my beloved when he was on his mission in what was then my home state. We both agreed that it was vitally important that he keep his commitments to our Father in Heaven and serve a clean and righteous mission. This actually worked out wonderfully for us because we got to know each other without feeling the pressure to express our feelings for each other sexually. When his mission was over he returned to his home and was killed a short time later. That was 37 years ago. I still love him and if I think of him too much tears come to my eyes. Last year, I went to put some flowers on his grave early one morning and just as I knelt down to place the flowers the sun broke over the ridge of the mountains east of the cemetery and as the sun shone upon me and his grave, I wept as bitterly as the day he died. I knew that for just a few moments he was there and saw me and I could feel the warmth of his continuing love.<br />
    What angers me more than anything else about some members, and perhaps even some General Authorities attitudes is that their heterosexual love is superior to the love I and my partner have. In my case, as well as in other Gay Mormon&#8217;s cases, they don&#8217;t have a clue. I don&#8217;t know of any of my gay friends, especially gay Mormon friends who would ever trivialize or belittle their loving relationships with their spouses. This is the core of their predjudice and discrimination. For them, the Scripture, &#8220;God is love&#8221; should be amended to read, &#8220;God is only heterosexual love&#8221; or &#8220;God is just our kind of love&#8221;.<br />
      Since the time of my partner&#8217;s passing from this mortal realm, I have seen the Church change and the driving engine for that change has been the converts that join the Church and the rising generations of younger Saints who have grown up without the bias and predjudices of earlier generations. Someday brethren, these men and women will fill the callings and offices within the Church. And when they kneel and ask Heavenly Father about this issue, God will find their minds genuinely open to receive the Light and Knowledge He has for them.<br />
      Now I may or may not see that day myself, but I feel that many of you will. In the meantime, stay true to the Faith! Build your testimonies and your courage to face these last days. At least we can be thankful for one thing, when the times of persecution come again, we&#8217;ll know how to cope. &#8220;Been there and endured much the same!&#8221; Ironically, then it might be that our straight brothers and sisters will need to lean on us to weather these trials!<br />
      Take good care of yourselves. You might not feel it or realize it at the time, but as long as you are striving to live the Gospel to the best of your ability our Heavenly Father is with you. He will strengthen you, sustain you and lift you up through your darkest hours. As time passes and you reflect on these episodes of your life you will see His Hand and the influence of His Holy Spirit. You are not alone and never have been. There have been gay Latter-day Saints in every generation, including those who made the trek West. We have a worthy place in the Kingdom of God. He has called us out of the World and into his Church and Kingdom. He answers our prayers and sends the Holy Spirit to witness, veritfy and strengthen our testimonies. What greater acceptance than that can we hope for until the Saviour comes?</p>
<p>      May God continue to bless and watch over you all.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soymademegay.com/?p=73#comment-104</guid>
		<description>#8 TFD, welcome and thanks for the add!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#8 TFD, welcome and thanks for the add!</p>
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		<title>By: TheFaithfulDissident</title>
		<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/comment-page-1/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>TheFaithfulDissident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soymademegay.com/?p=73#comment-103</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so glad I discovered your blog!  It&#039;s so refreshing to hear your perspective about being gay and Mormon.  I want so much to understand both sides of the issue and I often feel so torn between what all the conservative Mormons say and what feels right for me (I&#039;m an active, faithful LDS, but I tend to lean towards the left).  Sometimes I honestly don&#039;t know where I stand on the issue because it is so complex and emotional.  I think the biggest mistake we can all make is to look at it in black and white.  I think it deserves a lot more than that.

I especially love this post of what gay Mormons need because I think that too many are still under the assuption that a Mormon like you can&#039;t really be an upstanding member of the Church.

I also followed the heated debate on the Bloggernacle about the California letter and was surprised by some of the deep-rooted negative sentiments that some members still hold towards their fellow Mormon brothers and sisters who happen to be gay.  I wish that we would all realize that opening our minds doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that we have to compromise our standards and I&#039;ve tried to talk about this in my own blog.

I&#039;m going to add you to my list on my blog, hope you&#039;ll stop by sometime.  I think more people need to read what you have to say.  Hope you don&#039;t mind. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad I discovered your blog!  It&#8217;s so refreshing to hear your perspective about being gay and Mormon.  I want so much to understand both sides of the issue and I often feel so torn between what all the conservative Mormons say and what feels right for me (I&#8217;m an active, faithful LDS, but I tend to lean towards the left).  Sometimes I honestly don&#8217;t know where I stand on the issue because it is so complex and emotional.  I think the biggest mistake we can all make is to look at it in black and white.  I think it deserves a lot more than that.</p>
<p>I especially love this post of what gay Mormons need because I think that too many are still under the assuption that a Mormon like you can&#8217;t really be an upstanding member of the Church.</p>
<p>I also followed the heated debate on the Bloggernacle about the California letter and was surprised by some of the deep-rooted negative sentiments that some members still hold towards their fellow Mormon brothers and sisters who happen to be gay.  I wish that we would all realize that opening our minds doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that we have to compromise our standards and I&#8217;ve tried to talk about this in my own blog.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to add you to my list on my blog, hope you&#8217;ll stop by sometime.  I think more people need to read what you have to say.  Hope you don&#8217;t mind. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soymademegay.com/?p=73#comment-88</guid>
		<description>I think the Church thinks it is more mainstream than it really is.  The whole hubbub around Romney&#039;s candidacy gave us a taste of that.  The truth is, while they&#039;re more than happy to pander to our bloc voting, the majority of the Christian right don&#039;t consider us part of them.  I grew up Mormon in the Bible Belt and personally saw anti-Mormon activity by local protestant churches (as have many members, I&#039;m sure).  I&#039;m not saying that we are considered to be on the fringe, I&#039;m just saying that we are deluding ourselves if we think that outside of Utah we&#039;ve entered the mainstream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the Church thinks it is more mainstream than it really is.  The whole hubbub around Romney&#8217;s candidacy gave us a taste of that.  The truth is, while they&#8217;re more than happy to pander to our bloc voting, the majority of the Christian right don&#8217;t consider us part of them.  I grew up Mormon in the Bible Belt and personally saw anti-Mormon activity by local protestant churches (as have many members, I&#8217;m sure).  I&#8217;m not saying that we are considered to be on the fringe, I&#8217;m just saying that we are deluding ourselves if we think that outside of Utah we&#8217;ve entered the mainstream.</p>
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		<title>By: Alain K.</title>
		<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/comment-page-1/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>Alain K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 13:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soymademegay.com/?p=73#comment-87</guid>
		<description>After quoting the Bigelow comments above, you expressed the same sentiments I felt after reading B&#039;s shameful rant against homosexuals on his blog. It&#039;s amazing how otherwise rather liberal-minded people can come out as bigots when you give them enough time; it reminds me of something I read about Orson S. Card; when a gay reporter, having asked him to confirm that he had a friendly stance on homosexuality, was instead treated to an angry tirade.

Also, as you mention, &quot;some even forsee a wave of persecution aimed at the Church for our stance on the issue.&quot; 
This idea, that of &quot;persecution&quot; of the Church in these times, just sounds comical.  The FLDS can probably claim to have been &quot;persecuted&quot; by &quot;the world&quot;, but not the mainstream Church. 

I rather empathise with your fear of the actual persecution that does take place, namely that of gay people by the Church.

I think, as MoHoHawaii said, that the Church will become more tolerant, but it won&#039;t be in the near term; it will come, like other changes, about 50 years after the other mainstream Churches have changed their stance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After quoting the Bigelow comments above, you expressed the same sentiments I felt after reading B&#8217;s shameful rant against homosexuals on his blog. It&#8217;s amazing how otherwise rather liberal-minded people can come out as bigots when you give them enough time; it reminds me of something I read about Orson S. Card; when a gay reporter, having asked him to confirm that he had a friendly stance on homosexuality, was instead treated to an angry tirade.</p>
<p>Also, as you mention, &#8220;some even forsee a wave of persecution aimed at the Church for our stance on the issue.&#8221;<br />
This idea, that of &#8220;persecution&#8221; of the Church in these times, just sounds comical.  The FLDS can probably claim to have been &#8220;persecuted&#8221; by &#8220;the world&#8221;, but not the mainstream Church. </p>
<p>I rather empathise with your fear of the actual persecution that does take place, namely that of gay people by the Church.</p>
<p>I think, as MoHoHawaii said, that the Church will become more tolerant, but it won&#8217;t be in the near term; it will come, like other changes, about 50 years after the other mainstream Churches have changed their stance.</p>
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		<title>By: MoHoHawaii</title>
		<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>MoHoHawaii</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soymademegay.com/?p=73#comment-76</guid>
		<description>Great post!

My prediction is that the church will become more accepting over time. The church has a long, long history of eventually adapting to the views of the American middle class. You can see this most recently with the change of attitude toward women.

I remember 20 years ago or so when some people thought the church was going to explode over the issue of women&#039;s roles. The older generation had patriarchal views that were simply unacceptable to young people. Over time, the church more or less adapted. The patriarchal institutions are still in place but most couples just work around them. Most LDS marriages now follow the egalitarian pattern, even if there is sometimes lip service paid to the idea of patriarchy.

I think something like this will happen with gayness. The older attitude just doesn&#039;t play anymore with younger church members. Add 20 years, and the church will be a much more welcoming place. I don&#039;t expect any change of doctrine, just emphasis and attitude.

Thanks again for a good post and best of luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!</p>
<p>My prediction is that the church will become more accepting over time. The church has a long, long history of eventually adapting to the views of the American middle class. You can see this most recently with the change of attitude toward women.</p>
<p>I remember 20 years ago or so when some people thought the church was going to explode over the issue of women&#8217;s roles. The older generation had patriarchal views that were simply unacceptable to young people. Over time, the church more or less adapted. The patriarchal institutions are still in place but most couples just work around them. Most LDS marriages now follow the egalitarian pattern, even if there is sometimes lip service paid to the idea of patriarchy.</p>
<p>I think something like this will happen with gayness. The older attitude just doesn&#8217;t play anymore with younger church members. Add 20 years, and the church will be a much more welcoming place. I don&#8217;t expect any change of doctrine, just emphasis and attitude.</p>
<p>Thanks again for a good post and best of luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Abelard</title>
		<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Abelard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soymademegay.com/?p=73#comment-75</guid>
		<description>Like Kengo, these resonate with me.  I would add a couple more

7. &lt;b&gt;Don&#039;t get hung up on how we choose to identify ourselves&lt;/b&gt;
Some of us don&#039;t like terms like &lt;i&gt;Same Sex Attracted&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i&gt;Same Gender Attracted&lt;/i&gt;.  Just because we call ourselves &lt;em&gt;gay&lt;/em&gt; or &lt;em&gt;queer&lt;/em&gt; or whatever doesn&#039;t mean that is how we define ourselves.

8. &lt;b&gt;Don&#039;t fret about who we choose as our friends&lt;/b&gt;
When we have gay friends, it&#039;s no different than you having straight friends, or friends of the gender to whom you are attracted to.  Sometimes it&#039;s just nice to be around other people like us - people who understand what it&#039;s like to be us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Kengo, these resonate with me.  I would add a couple more</p>
<p>7. <b>Don&#8217;t get hung up on how we choose to identify ourselves</b><br />
Some of us don&#8217;t like terms like <i>Same Sex Attracted</i> or <i>Same Gender Attracted</i>.  Just because we call ourselves <em>gay</em> or <em>queer</em> or whatever doesn&#8217;t mean that is how we define ourselves.</p>
<p>8. <b>Don&#8217;t fret about who we choose as our friends</b><br />
When we have gay friends, it&#8217;s no different than you having straight friends, or friends of the gender to whom you are attracted to.  Sometimes it&#8217;s just nice to be around other people like us &#8211; people who understand what it&#8217;s like to be us.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soymademegay.com/?p=73#comment-74</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Kengo B.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Kengo B.</p>
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		<title>By: Kengo Biddles</title>
		<link>http://www.soymademegay.com/2008/06/what-gay-mormons-need/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Kengo Biddles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.soymademegay.com/?p=73#comment-73</guid>
		<description>This post really, really resonates with me.  I hope that it gets to the right &quot;ears&quot; and &quot;eyes&quot;.  Maybe it will do some good.  As always, Cliff, a pleasure to read your blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post really, really resonates with me.  I hope that it gets to the right &#8220;ears&#8221; and &#8220;eyes&#8221;.  Maybe it will do some good.  As always, Cliff, a pleasure to read your blog.</p>
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